I learned the basic principles of extensive reading (tadoku) from some of my Japanese friends who had been following this method for several years, but it wasn’t until after I started this blog that I learned more about this particular method’s history and became acquainted with Kunihide Sakai<\/A>, who developed and popularized this form of tadoku. He was kind enough to answer several questions that I had for him about extensive reading in Japan and other subjects. If anyone has any more questions or any opinions, please feel free to post a comment so we can keep the discussion going! You can also contact him directly through Twitter<\/A>.<\/p>\n

About the history of tadoku in Japan<\/strong><\/p>\n

What initially sparked your interest in extensive reading?<\/em><\/p>\n

\u2018Sparked\u2019 is a bit off the mark, really, because the realization was gradual rather than instantaneous. The biggest moment seems to have been around thirty years ago when an American colleague at a university where I taught English came to the common room one day with a black eye. She told me by way of explanation that \u2018bump into the door\u2019 is a euphemism suggesting domestic violence but that she really ran into the door. I gave up my research on English literature at that moment. I decided studying literature in a foreign language would be pointless unless I know the language well enough so I would know that \u2018Bump into the door\u2019 could suggest domestic violence. I decided also then I should read a lot before I\u2019d be able to do anything worthwhile regarding a foreign language, let alone \u2018to teach it\u2019!<\/p>\n

I could tell you more experiences like this one, but my answer is long already.<\/p>\n

You said in the other interview<\/A> that you had been trying to make extensive reading work for 25 years, but it wasn’t until you came up with your three golden rules that it really took off. How did you come up with those rules, and what had you been trying before?<\/em><\/p>\n

Eleven years ago, I was in England for one year with my family. I watched my kids acquire English at an alarming rate from scratch. (I had not taught them English myself before my family arrived in England.) I thought maybe the same thing could happen if my university students mimicked the way kids acquire a foreign language. It did seem like a crazy idea at the time, but I had been fed up with failures of all kinds
\nof teaching methods that I was willing to give something drastic a try.<\/p>\n

I started experimenting with eight 18-year old students at Denki-Tsushin University and, lo and behold, two of them started to read \u2018grownup\u2019 books after 30 weeks of what I since recognize as \u2018tadoku\u2019. I experimented a little more with a few more students and by and by the observation became the base of the three golden rules. They didn\u2019t seem crazy at the time any more.<\/p>\n

In Japan, is the word “tadoku” always associated with the kind of reading you advocate? (That is, fluent reading for fun without dictionaries, starting from a low level.) Or is the term used for other types of reading as well?<\/em><\/p>\n

Not really. The term \u591a\u8aad has been around for, say, a hundred years at least. Its revival is certainly largely due to what I started to advocate ten years ago, but there have spawned many interesting interpretations of what \u591a\u8aad means. Many people now only know the term \u591a\u8aad and don\u2019t know the three principles I proposed. I think it\u2019s quite natural that when something starts to spread widely it undergoes some kind of change or another.<\/p>\n

Are there different schools of thought about extensive reading in Japan? That is, even if people agree on the basics of tadoku, are there disagreements on the details, or about the best way to teach or study English through tadoku? If so, what are some of the more notable differences?<\/em><\/p>\n

Yes, differences abound. Even the basics of tadoku are forgotten in some cases. In one high school in Tokyo, for example, I hear students were given homework whereby they translate ten graded readers a year (like Oxford Bookworms Library books) into Japanese.<\/p>\n

Also there are differences of opinions even where basics are supposed to be agreed on, like \u2018Should we teach basic grammar first?\u2019, \u2018 Should flash cards be used?\u2019, \u2018Should we test comprehension?\u2019.<\/p>\n

What groups are there in Japan that work to promote tadoku? In what ways were you involved with them, and are you still involved with them now?<\/em><\/p>\n

There are now a number of groups that have a website to promote tadoku in English. Most prominent would be the SSS group<\/A>, the oldest and most widely referred to since its launch in autumn of 2001.<\/p>\n

I was one of its founding members and tadoku owes the site a lot at its earliest stages. I\u2019m not involved with the SSS group now because they have now reverted to traditional ways of learning English. They now advocate some degree of use of dictionary as well as teaching of grammar and use of tests. Other groups may have different principles but they are not very clear about where they stand. They seem to be simply providing information on books to read or online format to record tadoku progress.<\/p>\n

Can you write a quick summary of each of the books about tadoku and language learning that you’ve written or been a major contributor to? How were they received?<\/em><\/p>\n

\u300c\u3069\u3046\u3057\u3066\u82f1\u8a9e\u304c\u4f7f\u3048\u306a\u3044\uff1f\u3000\u5b66\u6821\u82f1\u8a9e\u306b\u3064\u3051\u308b\u85ac\u300d\uff08\u3061\u304f\u307e\u5b66\u82b8\u6587\u5eab, 1993\uff09<\/a>
\nLays the foundation for tadoku, I was hoping, by explaining how flash cards are detrimental to language learning. I also \u2018denounce\u2019 in this book the course books certified by the Ministry of Education as presenting \u2018unnatural\u2019 English. Total number of copies printed would be around 30,000? I\u2019m not really sure. Sorry.<\/p>\n

\u300c\u5feb\u8aad100\u4e07\u8a9e\uff01\u3000\u30da\u30fc\u30d1\u30fc\u30d0\u30c3\u30af\u3078\u306e\u9053\u300d\uff08\u3061\u304f\u307e\u5b66\u82b8\u6587\u5eab\u30012002\uff09<\/a>
\nThis is the first book that presented the three golden rules together with reading suggestions to pave the way from picture books to books for adults. Total number of copies printed would be 40,000?<\/p>\n

\n\u300c\u6559\u5ba4\u3067\u8aad\u3080\u82f1\u8a9e100\u4e07\u8a9e\u300d\uff08Co-authored with Kanda Minami, \u5927\u4fee\u9928\u66f8\u5e97\u30012005\uff09<\/a>
\nAll about introducing tadoku to classroom, with 19 examples of classroom practice from kids English classrooms to high schools to university. Total number of sale, 4000?<\/p>\n

\u300c\u3055\u3088\u306a\u3089\u82f1\u6587\u6cd5\u3000\u591a\u8aad\u304c\u80b2\u3066\u308b\u82f1\u8a9e\u529b\u300d\uff08\u3061\u304f\u307e\u5b66\u82b8\u6587\u5eab\u30012008\uff09<\/a>
\n\u300c\u3069\u3046\u3057\u3066\uff1f\u300dwas in a way a criticism of English-Japanese dictionaries.\u300c\u3055\u3088\u306a\u3089\u300dtakes a hard look on grammar as taught in schools according to the Ministry of Education guideline. Sad to say the worst seller of my books\u2026 less than 3000 copies sold? Intellectually exciting and truly eye-opening?<\/p>\n

Liana, let me recommend you \u300c\u5feb\u8aad100\u4e07\u8a9e\u300dif you want to read my book. It\u2019s the most readable, I hear. Don\u2019t bother the latter half of the book if you are not into grammar, though. I hear it\u2019s hard-going.<\/p>\n

Are there any other books about tadoku that are particularly popular?<\/em><\/p>\n

Yes there are a number of books that seem to be popular. Off the top of my head, \u300c\u4eca\u65e5\u304b\u3089\u8aad\u307f\u307e\u3059\u82f1\u8a9e100\u4e07\u8a9e\u300d<\/a>is the second book to appear on the market after \u300c\u5feb\u8aad100\u4e07\u8a9e\u300dand it is still popular because there are a lot of brief reviews of books that are suitable for English tadoku. You can see how tadoku is liberating to the people on the street.<\/p>\n

Do you think tadoku will ever become a major part of mainstream English education in Japan?<\/em><\/p>\n

I doubt it. It is so counter-intuitive (that an adult can learn a foreign language in the same way as kids do), it seems unlikely that schools and universities will embrace it, especially in Japan where rote-memory and test scores mean so much.<\/p>\n

Some people likened tadoku to Chinese medicine in that the effect is not so visibly clear except it builds your basic life functions in the long run, so to speak. (it seems to me the effect is much quicker than Chinese medicine.)<\/p>\n

Is there still an extensive reading class at the University of Electro-Communications now that you’ve retired, or will it revert to a more traditional English class?<\/em><\/p>\n

Er\u2026m\u2026 (Sigh) I still teach two tadoku classes at UEC as part-timer. But no Japanese teachers are interested in tadoku so there will be no more tadoku class once I quit next March.<\/p>\n

To be frank with you, Liana, Japanese teachers of English are the hardest to see the merits of tadoku. But let me grumble later if you want to know why. The topic is so depressing.<\/p>\n

(Note: I asked why, and he posted this comment on another page on July 29, 2011, which I’m adding here.)<\/em><\/p>\n

1)\tWhy Japanese teachers of English are the hardest to convince about the merits of tadoku.<\/p>\n

This is a big topic which would need a few thousand words if discussed in full, so let me just enumerate some of the problems teachers have with tadoku.<\/p>\n

*\tTeachers of English are the hardest nuts to crack because they have semi-instinctive resistance to tadoku, which is against everything they have believed in all along: use of a dictionary, translation into Japanese, vocab building through sheer memorization, focus on grammar, evaluation by tests and exams, among other things.
\n*\tThey think they are proficient in English thanks to the conventional methods described above, and they expect their students to follow their own steps. We all know the kind of disaster that results, don\u2019t we?
\n*\tMost teachers blame students for not achieving the proficiency they think they themselves have reached. Very few think that it\u2019s not the students but the conventional methods that are at fault.
\n*\tSo, tadoku is only accepted by teachers who have tried everything in their arsenal and have seen no visible improvement in their students.<\/p>\n

Are there any similar classes at other universities or schools that you’re aware of?<\/em><\/p>\n

Yes, there a quite a few schools and universities where tadoku is available to students. I guess the number is somewhere between 50 and 100 in all of Japan. You see, there ARE some oddballs among teachers of English in Japan.<\/p>\n

I find it very satisfying to work with such teachers and my diary<\/A> since April is full of visits to schools to help with their tadoku classes.<\/p>\n

What kinds of materials are available to Japanese speakers who are interested in doing tadoku in English?<\/em><\/p>\n

A well-stocked school will have about 10,000 books and picture books for its tadoku classes. They are mostly material for native-speaking kids from K to 12 but some are graded readers that are written in controlled English with contents for high school to adult audience.<\/p>\n

Is interest in tadoku continuing to grow, or do you feel like it’s waning somewhat?<\/em><\/p>\n

At the moment, it is still growing, growing strong even, it seems. Signs are in a lot of places if you know where to look. (That is, the trend is not that obvious.)<\/p>\n

I have a feeling that in five years\u2019 time the tide will change either for the better or for worse: I suspect it will be basic soundness of tadoku principles against the staying power of traditional thinking.<\/p>\n

I understand that the \u65e5\u672c\u591a\u8aad\u7814\u7a76\u4f1a (Japanese Graded Readers Research Group), the group that produced the only Japanese graded readers currently available, was organized (I think?) by your wife. How did she come to be interested in extensive reading for Japanese learners?<\/em><\/p>\n

I asked my wife who is roasting \u79cb\u5200\u9b5a now. She says first she was not happy with the traditional \u8aad\u89e3 teaching method, second she was impressed by the success of tadoku in my English classes.<\/p>\n

What else does that group do?<\/em><\/p>\n

The group teaches Japanese language classes in Tokyo, holds seminars for teachers of Japanese as a foreign language, and has workshops for writing, rewriting and editing of Japanese Graded Readers.<\/p>\n

About the tadoku community<\/strong><\/p>\n

You host discussions over Skype a few times a week: can you explain a little bit about what those chats are like and who can join in?<\/em><\/p>\n

Those chats started about nine months ago and finally the number of sessions per week started to grow. They have been successful, I think, because they bring together tadoku lovers around Japan for friendly and relaxed chatting in English. I have found Japanese people being very unwilling to make mistakes so, to lower the threshold, I ask them to use Japanese whenever they get stuck in English. This might seem bad for learners with \u6839\u6027 or determination and guts, it has proven successful so far, getting more and more shy people to talk in English.<\/p>\n

I am hoping to invite more Japanese learners like yourself to one of these sessions so please be alert to notices in Liana\u2019s blog and my blog at tadoku.org<\/A>. I invite anyone who is learning Japanese to contact me and join the \u304a\u3057\u3083\u3079\u308a\u4f1a\u3002<\/p>\n

People who are into tadoku in Japan do offline meetups as well; what are those like?<\/em><\/p>\n

They have been extremely successful and I believe they contributed to the success of tadoku in general in a big way. You see, it seems to me that three elements that meant a lot to the success so far are The three golden principles, the great amount of easy tadoku material and the tadoku community.<\/p>\n

The number of tadoku lovers is so small and they are usually separated far from each other, they needed the Internet to make sure they are not alone. And off-line meetups may have enhanced the sense of this minority community.<\/p>\n

What sort of experience do people learning Japanese have with tadoku?<\/em><\/p>\n

I\u2019ll have to ask my wife for this question but she has already gone to her computer, I\u2019ll ask her later but I believe it\u2019s roughly the same as English tadoku lovers. Tadoku let them enjoy Japanese rather than toil at it, thereby taking them very far along the way — farther than learners have had any inkling of sometimes.<\/p>\n

Do you ever hear from people doing tadoku in languages besides English and Japanese?<\/em><\/p>\n

Yes, I do, but they are all of them Japanese and had done tadoku in English before they started tadoku in other languages, like German, Chinese, French and Spanish for example. They all complain about the scarcity of easy tadoku material. In some languages, manga in the target language seem to be useful and easy to get hold of.<\/p>\n

About tadoku and the learning process<\/strong><\/p>\n

Why do you consider it so important to stop using a dictionary?<\/em><\/p>\n

I know this goes against the grain of serious and deermined learners of any foreign language. But I have observed literary thousands of English learners in Japan and the experience has shown me that at the end of the day the less you use your dictionary the quicker you get the gist of that language and get more efficient.<\/p>\n

Do you think that learning a language primarily through tadoku is effective?<\/em><\/p>\n

Err, yes. Please note that I base this affirmation on my observation so far. Actually by the same token, it seems to me now that the operative word here is \u2018primarily\u2019, if you want to enjoy the process of acquisition itself. If you want to go the hard way or if you enjoy tackling the dictionary or translating, stay clear of tadoku.<\/p>\n

Have some learners particularly benefited from spending time on structured vocabulary and\/or grammar studies along with extensive reading?<\/em><\/p>\n

I doubt it. I\u2019m not saying this categorically, though. I\u2019m trying to find out the impact of conscious vocabulary building and\/or grammar learning, but the jury is still out at the moment. My guess is that vocabulary building and grammar learning may have adverse effect on \u2018(simulated) natural acquisition\u2019 of a foreign language.<\/p>\n

One of the most common criticisms I see of tadoku is that it’s good for reinforcing previously learned vocabulary, but it isn’t as efficient a way of learning vocabulary as other methods are. How do you address that concern?<\/em><\/p>\n

They must be talking about \u2018proper books\u2019 rather than picture books at the first stages of tadoku. Pictures help enormously, you see. I have seen people with next to no knowledge of English getting quite proficient in recognizing and understanding hundreds if not thousands of new words.<\/p>\n

I could go on writing about dozens of examples in this respect but it will take another three days at least writing non-stop. So more examples made available on request:).
\n
\nAre there students who were turned off by what they felt to be childish or overly basic materials? Were they able to succeed with tadoku anyways, and if so, how?<\/em><\/p>\n

Luckily my students at Denki-Tshushin U. are almost all of them fed up with the English course books with difficult topics and more difficult English. That helps a lot when I show them hundreds of picture books that they are asked to enjoy. They think my courses are veritable \u2018Mickey courses\u2019 as you say?, and before they know it, they get hooked by tadoku through Curious George books and Frog and Toad books for example.<\/p>\n

It is my thinking that really serious authors of picture books tend to take their job quite seriously and do their best to entertain or to be informative to children and themselves. Forget childish pride in being a grown-up!, I say.<\/p>\n

What are some other common criticisms of tadoku in Japan, and how do you address them?<\/em><\/p>\n

There are so many, Liana, it beats me how I should start enumerating\u2026 And they also depress me. So some other time, all right?<\/p>\n

One thing though. Have your heard of Bernal\u2019s Ladder? If you haven\u2019t, please read an article in my blog: http:\/\/tadoku.org\/sakai-note\/archives\/2009\/07\/29_1059.html<\/A><\/p>\n

You will see, I hope, tadoku is slowly overcoming the countless criticisms and misunderstandings.<\/p>\n

Do people studying on their own through tadoku usually start with graded readers, or do many people prefer to start with authentic materials?<\/em><\/p>\n

I do not know the percentage but there are both. In the early years definitely more people started with controlled \u2018graded readers\u2019, but authentic materials like Oxford Reading Tree series are now easier to get hold of since public libraries have begun to stock them. I am pushing toward more libraries having authentic tadoku materials.<\/p>\n

Was there any sense of competition among your students, or among people doing tadoku on their own?<\/em><\/p>\n

Not that I am aware of in my classes at U.E.C. Though they tend to hide such urge to compete. My guess is that very few have a sense of competition.<\/p>\n

In secondary schools, where class members are more \u2018childish\u2019, I have seen competition going, but it\u2019s not all that bad as an initial driving force toward bulk reading. Problem starts when you keep on reading for competition too long. After all, tadoku is pleasure reading in a foreign language. Sense of competition gets in the way of sheer enjoyment, don\u2019t you think?<\/p>\n

What genres of graded readers did your students most like?<\/em><\/p>\n

Let\u2019s say, 70% fiction and 30% non-fiction? Both in picture books and proper print books. Fantasy is favourite of many students, detective stories are another popular genre, and very easy science books with photos are very favoured by many. <\/p>\n

Did you ever help develop any English graded readers?<\/em><\/p>\n

I was asked to be editor-in-chief of the easiest-level graded readers by Oxford University Press once, but the idea didn\u2019t strike me as good and nothing came of it. I greatly regret my obtuseness.<\/p>\n

About you<\/strong><\/p>\n

What do you prefer to be called in Japanese and why? (Any particular preference in English?)<\/em><\/p>\n

Just call me Sakai or Sakai-san. I have just retired and I\u2019m savouring the sense of freedom, you see.<\/p>\n

What was your personal history with learning English?<\/em><\/p>\n

Let me first make clear that I did NOT learn English through tadoku, which is my \u2018invention\u2019, if you like, at age fifty-five or so. I wish someone had come up with it before I started learning English.<\/p>\n

I started learning English at age thirteen as any other Japanese in those days. (No English classes for kids in elementary school.) I was into grammar in a big way in high school. Then I began to collect dictionaries in undergraduate and graduate school days. The highest I paid for a dictionary was 100,000 Yen for the second edition of Webster\u2019s International. Can you believe it? I sell it to anyone willing to pay good price for it.<\/p>\n

Then I bumped into the episode of \u2018domestic violence\u2019 and washed my hands of dictionaries. I am still in love of grammar though. I\u2019d like to make clear to myself what the structure is in any language, something like universal grammar? I don\u2019t know but I enjoy making hypotheses about it.<\/p>\n

Have you spent a lot of time studying abroad or living in English-speaking countries?<\/em><\/p>\n

I don\u2019t think it was \u2018a lot of time\u2019 but I lived in England on two occasions for one year each and another three months lecturing on English-to-Japanese translation.<\/p>\n

Now that you’ve retired, where are you focusing your efforts in terms of promoting tadoku?<\/em><\/p>\n

Three areas: Schools, the tadoku.org<\/A> website, and one-on-one supporting of tadoku lovers in small and private classes.<\/p>\n

How are you using Twitter these days?<\/em><\/p>\n

I hadn\u2019t expected much of twitter, as a matter of fact, but I had hopes for it as a way to write a lot in the target language, and it is working fine with some Japanese learners of English. I hope more people will realize the potentiality of twitter as opportunity for expressing themselves in their target language. The threshold is so low with twitter, and you can expect some kind of reaction from your \u591a\u8aad\u4ef2\u9593.<\/p>\n

Were there any English books that you particularly wanted to read when you were starting to learn English?<\/em><\/p>\n

That was when I was thirteen years old, Liana. And I had no idea what English or American literature was like. No, I didn\u2019t have an \u61a7\u308c\u306e\u672c. I wish there had been a book like Harry Potter, though.<\/p>\n

Do you have a favorite English book now?<\/em><\/p>\n

Yes, many. Let us talk about them later.<\/p>\n

Can you recommend any Japanese books that you particularly liked as a kid and\/or ones that you think might be especially interesting to those of us doing extensive reading in Japanese?<\/em><\/p>\n

Ah! That\u2019s a brilliant idea, Liana. I\u2019ll ask my friends in tadoku.org to come up with a Japanese book they enjoyed.<\/p>\n

As for my own choice, I still think Eleanor Farjeon\u2019s The Little Bookroom could be an excellent choice for tadoku lovers in Japanese, because it\u2019s written in beautiful and readable Japanese and its stories are all of them fairly short. No kids\u2019 stuff, I guarantee.<\/p>\n

What do you think about the tadoku contest? (http:\/\/readmod.wordpress.com\/<\/A>)<\/em><\/p>\n

Sorry. I didn\u2019t have time to look at the site. So give me a rain check for now. (Does the term \u2018contest\u2019 play a big role there?)<\/p>\n

Is there a story behind the penguin avatar?<\/em><\/p>\n

Not really. One of my students at the UEC came to me one day about a year ago and showed me several animal versions of me. I liked the penguin version best and it turned out a lot of other people like it too. So it\u2019s going to stay with me for a long time to come, I suppose.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

I learned the basic principles of extensive reading (tadoku) from some of my Japanese friends who had been following this method for several years, but it wasn’t until after I started this blog that I learned more about this particular method’s history and became acquainted with Kunihide Sakai<\/A>, who developed and popularized this form […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":[],"categories":[113],"tags":[6,116,172,115,114,101],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/joechip.net\/extensivereading\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/574"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/joechip.net\/extensivereading\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/joechip.net\/extensivereading\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/joechip.net\/extensivereading\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/joechip.net\/extensivereading\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=574"}],"version-history":[{"count":25,"href":"https:\/\/joechip.net\/extensivereading\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/574\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":791,"href":"https:\/\/joechip.net\/extensivereading\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/574\/revisions\/791"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/joechip.net\/extensivereading\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=574"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/joechip.net\/extensivereading\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=574"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/joechip.net\/extensivereading\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=574"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}